Vinod Mehta, Editor-in-Chief, Outlook

<p align=justify>“The debate over editor is king or the marketing manager is king is a phoney debate; it doesn’t exist because no editor will tell you that selling is not important. That there is a war between the editorial and marketing departments is phoney too…However, the real test for the media is the test of editorial credibility and how we reinvent ourselves. The industry is at a crossroads. I am not just talking about the magazine business -- I am talking about the entire media industry.”

e4m by exchange4media Staff
Published: Sep 30, 2005 12:00 AM  | 7 min read
<b>Vinod Mehta</b>, Editor-in-Chief, Outlook
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“The debate over editor is king or the marketing manager is king is a phoney debate; it doesn’t exist because no editor will tell you that selling is not important. That there is a war between the editorial and marketing departments is phoney too…However, the real test for the media is the test of editorial credibility and how we reinvent ourselves. The industry is at a crossroads. I am not just talking about the magazine business -- I am talking about the entire media industry.”

For years, the country was ruled by just one newsmagazine: India Today. In 1995, Rajan Raheja and Deepak Shourie decided that the monopoly was itself an opportunity, and that there was room for another newsmagazine. They roped in Vinod Mehta, who, like Joseph, wore a coat of many colours. He'd been Editor of a girlie magazine, of a Sunday paper, of a number of dailies. And, against odds, Outlook pulled it off: with a great idea, great strategy, a little bit of luck and credible content.

Impact’s Anant Rangaswami and Samidha Sharma met Vinod Mehta and got him to speak out on Outlook, on the crisis of credibility in the media, and on the future of news magazines. Excerpts from the free-wheeling interview:

Q. So you are more of a CEO than an editor now?

No, no! There was a stage after Deepak Shourie left us and I was offered the CEO job, but I said that I would function as a CEO but would not take the title of a CEO. I have been an editor all my life and I want to die as an editor.



Q. You have written about this issue, that “there is a premium on the exclusives and the specials, the indiscreet interview, the foolish statement, the steamy details of a private life of public figures” and so on. There seems to be an audience for this on TV at least.

If you put some naked men and women running around, obviously there is going to be an audience for it but there is a law of diminishing returns here. We have done sex covers and it works, but you cannot build a whole product around it. The core of the product has to be journalism.

But coming back to the point I really do believe that the challenge for magazines is not distribution, the challenge for magazines is for us to reinvent the magazine whether it is a features magazine, whether it is a youth magazine. Maybe niche magazines are different. The challenge is for mainstream magazines. And that’s why mainstream magazines are shrinking. The challenge has to be met. If we don’t meet the challenge, we will die.



Q. How much of a pain are you to your marketing and ad sales department?

We work in complete harmony, simply because our objectives are identical. First of all, I am delighted that there is advertising; and the more advertising there is, the better. This is what I was talking about when I mentioned about the Outlook Group and Mr Raheja. This is a group where editorial is king. This is an editorial-led group unlike The Times of India, which is a marketing-led group.



Q. It’s been a fairly long journey for you as an editor...you started at a very young age. So how has the journey been for Vinod Mehta, the editor? Where are you now and where will you go from here?

Well, you know, I was extremely lucky because I began my career as an editor at the age of 27. Not many people get this opportunity, and it’s a double-edged sword. I began as an editor because I met Sushil Somani who used to run Debonair and he was on the lookout for an editor. At that time and there were two homosexuals who used to run Debonair, a girlie magazine -- self-professed homosexuals. When I looked at the magazine, instead of women I saw men in jock straps, and there were more pretty men in the magazine than there were pretty women!

So I had to learn how to redesign the magazine. Nobody would agree to be interviewed; nobody would agree to write for us. I had to beg people. And Pataudi was the first person I thought of because I wanted to start the Playboy interview kind of thing. Pataudi was quite big at that time and he agreed for the interview. Since no one was prepared to write for Debonair at that time, I wrote four articles under different names in the first issue just to show people how I wanted the magazine to develop. I started from there, and then we had people like Nissim Ezekiel writing for us; I discovered Iqbal Masood; Anil Dharkar started contributing regularly.

But there was always something sleazy associated with the magazine. I could put any amount of “intellectual” or what I thought was good literary material but I could not change the image of the magazine. Mr Vajypyee gave us an interview and when I met him later to thank him, he told me, “I had to keep your magazine under my pillow.” That’s the day I decided to quit. In the seven years that I had been there I could not change the way the magazine was perceived. I conceded defeat.



Q. But what would you say about them pulling out of ABC, would you care to comment?

No, I don’t really want to. There are so many people who have pulled out of ABC. You see, in the end, there’s NRS, IRS, ABC. I don’t want to knock any of these. After all, these are tools for media planning. I think that the advertising business today has become sophisticated and agencies now are very smart. They have so many tools and they have so much of information, that you can’t fool them. So whatever NRS says and whatever IRS says or whatever ABC says, an O&M or a Lintas knows where India Today is and where Outlook is.

I think they know who reaches who. At the end of the day it’s not just a numbers game. You know you can’t sell just five copies, but once you have achieved a critical mass, it’s about who you reach. And I know it’s a slightly elitist thing but all research shows that they have a much older audience and we have a much younger audience. We have an audience that is more intellectual; I mean we are the upmarket magazine.



Q. How do you stay in touch with the advertising and marketing professionals to understand how they are changing and how the market is changing?

Well, I think I try and understand how the market is changing by looking around me. I am not really in touch with the advertisers. My own people keep me informed on how the market is changing. They keep telling me that X is doing this; Y is saying this. X is saying, for example, “if you don’t give Outlook this ad in this campaign, I will give you five per cent extra commission”. So I am aware of that. But you may have noticed that in its 10 years of existence Outlook



Q. Finally, where would you see Vinod Mehta five years from now?

I really don’t know. One of the things that I have not been able to do is to pay much attention to my own writing. I am a hands-on editor; I’m not an editor only for show. And I can’t do both editing and writing. I may not be the initiator of the change on some of the issues that I have raised today, like the reinvention of news journalism because I might not be around, but I certainly hope that the next generation of editors will take up the challenge.

When I die I would not be unhappy if they put on my tombstone: “Here lies a print journalist”.



Q. As we come to a close, where do you see Outlook five years from now? Ten years is a long journey, and this is another crossroads. Where do you see the industry going?

As I told you, the industry is at a crossroads. I am not just talking about the magazine business -- I am talking about the entire media industry. There is a big challenge which the industry is facing: the challenge is of credibility.

Increasingly, one of the things that is happening because of excessive competition is that people are desperate for “exclusives”. On many occasions they trip up. I think that Indian media has great credibility and the debate over editor is king or the marketing manager is king is a phoney debate; it doesn’t exist because no editor will tell you that selling is not important. You have to be crazy to talk like that. That there is a war between the editorial and marketing departments is phoney too -- because we have to survive together.

However, the real test for the media is the test of editorial credibility and how we reinvent ourselves. You know people are bored with television because television keeps doing things the same old way. You get representatives from three political parties into a studio, and the role of the compere is to provoke them to shout and scream at each other. You get three people with completely antagonistic points of views to ensure that this happens.

Now the rules of the game are changing because readers and viewers are changing. And, I must stress audiences are not dumbing down. This is again a phoney debate. What message is the audience sending? The audience is asking us to change the way we present news. “I don’t have time” -- that is what he is trying to tell us. “I want to know but I don’t want to read 18 pages to find out.” That is not dumbing down; that is a creative challenge. How does one present news that is succinct, that is not trivialised? I am not making a plea for trivialisation, I am making a plea for clarity.



Q. About Outlook Getaways. Did it surpass your expectations?

Yes! We did not know or we did not anticipate the size of the need for such a product. We talk about the approximately 3.5 million people who come from abroad; but there is no accurate figure on the number of domestic people who travel, about the number of domestic travellers. But when you go out on a holiday you see the number of ordinary people who are travelling. The middle class has money and disposable income, so that six-hour drive in your Alto, an eight-hour drive to Mussourie or Nanital is very much in the realm of your financial capacity. I think we didn’t realise the extent to which that was happening.



Q. But haven’t there been any compromises like Outlook Spotlight?

Sure. You cannot run away from the fact that the problem in the Indian media is that the advertising cake is too small and there are just too many publications. And those numbers, be it electronic or print, don’t seem to be reducing. So the market -- number of media offerings -- is increasing at a much faster rate and the advertising cake is not increasing anywhere close to that. The quest for a piece of that cake has resulted in a number of unprofessional practices creeping in and that brings down the whole profession. We cannot say that we have not been contaminated by it.

But we are working in an environment where I am told that there are publications which do not even have a rate card! You know what that means? That means that if you are an advertiser and if you go to a publisher, they ask you to sit across the table and negotiate like you are buying potatoes. That is the compulsion of this absolutely crazy, illogical growth in the number of products. We have had to compromise too. But I think we have compromised less.



Q. With that in mind, is a weekly current enough considering the speed at which information comes in today?

All of us who work in magazines need to remind ourselves that we have to reinvent our products. Everybody reads one newspaper, everybody will watch television -- magazines are optional reading. Now the old ways of presenting news that we used for many, many years needs to be re-looked. We have to reinvent our products and we have to make our products compelling to the reader. Major surgery is required.

Magazines are slowly being moved to the margins because news is moving so fast. Newspaper editors tell me, “My god! These television people get away with murder simply because they are there on the spot.” They commit terrible blunders but they get away with it because they are covering it ‘live’. So it’s my belief that the big challenge for any magazine in the future is for it to somehow reinvent the formula and to see how it can become relevant again. And that can only happen by looking at editorial content. The same old way of covering politics, the same old way of covering features, the same old way of doing things will not work. Like they do on television, they put a table and two chairs and then they make two guys fight and generate a lot of noise. More heat than enlightenment.



Q. Are you suggesting that we need to find a print idiom for that?

Two people shouting at each other is not good television. Good television can also exist where a logical, sane argument is made quietly. Shouting is not the acid test of whether a programme is good. So, in magazines also we have to see how we can make the reader feel that there is something in magazines which no other medium provides. I think a number of editors and proprietors don’t realize that news has become an extremely complex business. For example, people will say climate change has affected the monsoon. I think no electronic media has the capacity to explain climate change. We have the unique possibility in magazines to actually explain climate change, but unfortunately we also do it the TV way. We have to find new ways to engage the reader and to explain things that television is inherently incapable of. And that is the reinvention I am talking about.

In politics too, things need to be done differently. Take the employment guarantee scheme: 100 districts to get Rs 15,000 crore. These are complex pieces of information, and magazines can make them comprehensible. When people say they are not interested in politics, it’s not true. People are not bored with politics; they are bored with the way politics is covered. I do not have a solution. I too am looking for an answer on how to change the rules of the game, on how to make current affairs and news more palatable.

And then, there is the question of attention span. It has become much smaller, people want clarity quickly. We have to find ways to make complex news simple, whether it’s graphically or through photographs or words. Making serious journalism popular has been my lifelong mission.



Q. Getting back on your love for the written word. Can you comment on products like Outlook Traveller which has been a runaway success? What made it work?

It’s again based on the same thing. The editor, first. We took some time to get the editor. Once the editor was in place, I said to him that there was only one brief for this magazine, “no trade”. We will not publish the photograph of the Cargo Manager of Japan Airlines and then go to him and say, “Give me an advertisement”.

This is going to be a destination magazine reflecting the flavours, colours, the feel of destinations, that was my brief. We don’t do any trade news, we don’t print any news about appointments. Again we broke the rules because every single travel magazine at that time worked differently. For example, they did a six-page interview with Bicky Oberoi and then you would go and ask for ads from Oberoi. That was the old way of doing things. So we said that we would break the rules -- and the travel industry itself said, “Thank you very much.” The cargo manager himself said that he was embarrassed that his picture appears because there was a quid pro quo involved.



Q. Do you think that it’s now time for a girlie magazine to exist, considering the kind of adult content that is prevalent around us on the Internet?

A lot has changed now. I think sexual attitudes have changed and there is much more openness and nudity in the media -- print media and electronic media. But it is a very difficult balancing act. The editorial content is not a problem; it’s the pictorial content that’s the stumbling block. How do you get really attractive women, the so-called aspirational women – say Sushmita Sen?

In Debonair, more than half the time -- and I have no hesitation in confessing this -- we had prostitutes on the centrefold because no one else was willing to pose in the nude. I once got my own girlfriend to model! She noticed that I was very depressed, and asked me why. I told her that my deadline was approaching and that we had no centrefold – and she volunteered! She left me soon after.

Photographers were not a problem because they themselves wanted to do this kind of photography for which they rarely got an opportunity. It’s getting the models, it’s getting the girls that’s a problem. Look at the girls that Playboy gets; they get such beautiful women because a) it’s Playboy and b) they pay generously. You can’t pay someone Rs 10,000 for posing for a centrefold; today, we are talking in terms of lakhs.



Q. But aren’t you involved in every aspect of the business?

Yes, of course. I have meetings with the entire team and I am involved in all the main decisions. But I would say that I spend 90 per cent of my time in editing and 10 per cent of my time in major marketing decisions.



Q. On the Mumbai newspaper scene -- are you in touch with it? Would you care to comment?

I have written about it. I will not mention any of the papers but I think you could write a book on “how not to launch a newspaper” looking at some of the efforts! There is no great mystery about launching a product whether it is a magazine or a newspaper. You first appoint an editor who has some credibility and who can deliver the goods. But you can’t start a newspaper upside down without first having an editor! Unless you have an editor, you are not going to build the team. A team is not built around the publisher; a team is built around the editor - however good the publisher may be. That is the fatal error that has been made.

One of the new players thinks that there is a magic marketing formula that will help sell their paper. I have been in this business for 30 years and there is no magical marketing technique, except the fact of producing a paper which people would like to read. Unless there is a pulling power from the reader, no marketing miracle can work. You can take your distributors to Las Vegas for a good time, but unless you have a readable newspaper which people want to buy, no marketing can work.

A bad product can never be sold by good marketing; only a good product can be sold by good marketing. I do not know any instance in the world where an indifferent publication or a mediocre publication has been pushed by aggressive marketing, but I have seen a good publication pushed by good marketing. That is the combination to strive for.



Q. Getting back to the journey of Mr. Mehta as editor. A weekly newsmagazine is a business, and editors also have to change the way they see their role. Can you describe the change?

I was lucky. In 1981, when I launched The Sunday Observer, I was confronted with the situation where I didn’t have anyone to invest in a Sunday paper. No one understood what a Sunday paper meant. I had some Rs 50,000 which I gave Ashwin Shah who was bankrolling the project. Obviously, this led to my being very much involved in the commercial side of the publication.

I would say that I have been one of the few editors who have been very conscious of the fact that to enjoy real editorial freedom, you have to be commercially viable. All those publications which are commercially weak, are also editorially vulnerable. If you have a weak commercial publication, for example, politicians or advertisers can tell you, “Listen, either toe the line or I am cancelling that two-page spread.” If your publication is doing well and is commercially viable, you can say f*** off!

So I believe that commercial success and editorial freedom actually go hand in hand. I see no inconsistency between standing up for your fundamental rights as an editor and wooing advertisers. I will give you an example. Recently, one of my neighbours, a very well known golfer called Gaurav Ghei, came to me and said that he had been to Kolkata and had bought a bar of Cadbury chocolate in which he found worms; he had kept the bar. I did a story on that. Then I found two more people calling in saying to me that they had a similar experience. Then the whole Cadbury team came to Outlook and they were very nice and, of course, they gave the usual explanations, but during the course of the explanation, it slipped out that they had greatly strengthened their storing methods. And they said that this happens to other international brands too. I said, of course it did. By the time the story came out they had sealed and double-sealed their storage methods and were being extra careful. I saw that as a small victory for us: we were able to protect the consumer. Not that we antagonised Cadburys.

Another example was the famous Pepsi and Coke controversy on the question of impurities. I did something without telling either Coke or Pepsi. I went into the market and bought one bottle each of Pepsi and Coke. We have a correspondent in London, and I sent the bottles to him for an independent analysis by a world famous lab. We then got the results, which gave both Pepsi and Coke a clean chit. And then I rang up both Coke and Pepsi and they couldn’t believe it. “You didn’t tell us.” Why should I? I was just doing something for my readers.



Q. While on the topic of Deepak Shourie, a lot of people in the industry felt that it was the best team that existed at that time, Vinod Mehta and Deepak Shourie together. You had the courage at that time to say that you could take on India Today, which was the paradigm. How would you describe those days?

I think that it was an extraordinarily brave decision on the part of Mr. Raheja. I have no hesitation is confessing that he was the one who was on the lookout for starting something in publishing and then they had zeroed in on a newsmagazine. At that point, there was hardly any publishing house in India which had not tried its hand with a newsmagazine. They all chickened out because the market had a formidable brand leader. Deepak and Mr Raheja at that time were thinking of starting a fortnightly. I said why do you want to compete with India Today on their turf? Let’s create our own turf.

So, I insisted that we create a weekly newsmagazine, to which they agreed. When we launched, there were two things which helped us. First, we caught India Today at a vulnerable time. The leader had almost gone to sleep because there was no competition and there was this air of complacency in India Today. Their cover stories were 24-pages long! Well, they could get away with anything because there was only one newsmagazine.

Secondly, they made a crucial tactical blunder -- they gave us about 18 months alone as a weekly! I would have thought that they would respond much faster to become a weekly. But in those 18 months, week after week after week, we kept exposing them. They probably thought that these guys are too small, who the hell are these guys? They will go away…they will go bust soon. They won’t be here. I think that kind of miscalculation on their part cost them.



Q. Coming back to what you said earlier, there is an acute shortage of editors in the country. Television is exploding with a number of channels coming into this new space. A number of them are recognizing the fact that the team needs to be built around the editor. A case in point is Broadcast News from CNBC TV 18, where they first got Rajdeep Sardesai in, and then started the business. Have you not been tempted to get into TV?

I have been approached many times. But, you see, I find TV a trivial medium. I believe that serious people should not appear on television too often. This “rent a quote” phenomenon where one is on every programme I don’t think much of. So I am not interested in television because the kind of skills that I have and the kind of things that I have leant in the last 30 years I can never use on television. To be good on television you have to be a bit of an actor. It’s very unreal.



Q. And yet at one point you said that you never wanted to overtake India Today and that it had never been your challenge. What had been your benchmark?

My benchmark was to produce the best in terms of journalistic quality and to reach a figure which was viable, acceptable and respectable. And also the marketing team told us that if you sell 50 copies in Jhumritilaiya, it doesn’t really matter from a commercial perspective.

We identified about 30 cities and we really concentrated on those cities. It was a slightly elitist attitude, but it was a tactical decision on our part that we did not particularly want a strong presence in the mufossil towns. Even today, India Today beats us about three to one, but in the metros we are neck and neck.



Q. You just wanted to shift the goal post…

I wanted to shift the goal post and say that let these chaps compete on our turf and if I might say so, it was a good decision. Like I told you, we used the 18 months that they gave us to establish our product. On many occasions people were buying us just because we were more current.



Q. Let us start with something you were accused of: that you were prone to start a publication and then run away. Your response was it was not true; that, in fact, you kept getting sacked. So why haven’t you got sacked from Outlook for the last 10 years?

It’s because I have an outstanding proprietor. I have met a proprietor who has lived up to his word. He did two things, for which I admire him. When we had our first conversation, he said, “Content is king…Vinod, you get the best content and I am ready to invest money on content.” I am not saying that he gave me an unlimited budget, but he did give me money whenever I asked for it for legitimate purposes.

Secondly, he gave me the kind of editorial freedom that editors dream of. You know that during the Vajpyee regime we did a couple of cover stories exposing the roles of Ranjan Bhattacharya and Brajesh Mishra. This resulted in not only he (Rajan Raheja, Outlook’s proprietor) being raided; his family was also harassed.

In those days there was a terrible law called FEMA, where they called you into a building which smelled like a urinal and they made you wait for five to six hours and then you were told that the investigation would not happen that day. I asked Mr Raheja when he was called in for interrogation whether he wanted my resignation. All he wanted, he said, was for me to get the harassment stopped.

So I did something that I found both humiliating and something I have never done in my professional life -- I went and asked the Prime Minister for a favour. I went to Yashwant Sinha and Brajesh Mishra, too. All I said was let the law take its course. If you discover that Mr. Raheja has Rs 100 crores under his pillow then prosecute him, but don’t harass him like this. They eased up a little bit after that. So, I’ve stayed so long because of Mr Raheja.



Q. On that front now India Today has pulled out of ABC. How do you react to that? Is ABC relevant any more?

Well, that is their decision. I must tell you that they have increased their price from this issue to Rs 20. That is very strange because when we had increased the price from Rs 10 to Rs 15, I had agreed with Aroon Purie that on so and so date we will go to Rs 15 together. Just a couple of months before that agreed date I heard suddenly that they have reneged on the decision; that they would not increase the price. I was a little angry because they had agreed. So we went to Rs 15 and then they followed to Rs 15. This time, they have gone to Rs 20. We will see.



Q. What would happen if full-fledged Indian editions of Time and Newsweek come into India?

Well, editors of Time and Newsweek tell me that they have got an even bigger problem. They are facing the same issue. Politics does not work even there too. Why do you see so many covers on heart disease and diabetes? Out of 52 weeks they do 75 per cent of their covers on features because even they have not discovered new ways to cover hard politics.

When I created
The Indian Post in the late 80s, I was trying to create a newspaper for a television age. When I did the Pioneer, I was attempting the same exercise. And my take was that you should have news on Page 1 -- and on the inside you should explain the news. That kind of editorial has to be created. I find so many publishers ready to call somebody from Siberia and pay him $ 500,000 to redesign the magazine. They never look at the content; they say content, kuch bhi chalega! That attitude is the crux of the problem. It is not only about getting an exclusive story. Even that doesn’t work, it is how you present content and how you make that content fresh, different and comprehensible.



Q. What about as an editor and not someone in front of the camera -- though you do appear as a guest on a number of shows on television?

I do; but you can ask them -- for every six times they ask me, I go once. I am still mesmerised by words; I am still mesmerised by meaning. I am still mesmerised by print. People have asked me to anchor a show, why should I? At the end, what do all my great editor friends have to do -- end up interviewing Bipasha Basu? You get one Amartya Sen in a year, but 98 per cent of the time you are interviewing Tabu, Bipasha Basu or Sushmita Sen. They are all wonderful women but if I start talking to them on TV, my attitude that I am not really interested in them will show. Therefore, I will do that kind of television very badly -- because the staple of television is showbiz. Now how would I engage Bipasha Basu in a 30-minute intelligent or witty conversation? I am not saying this in a patronising way. I just wouldn’t know how to do it. And I must say there are people who are doing it extremely well, so why the hell should I do something which other people are already doing competently?



Q. It was suggested that again something similar was on the anvil and that both of you were trying to go to Rs 20 together…

Yes, yes, we’ll see.



Q. Any other product in that space where you have identified a niche which is a natural extension of Outlook in some form?

We are in the process of identifying or we have identified some new products -- not niche products.



Q. What about TV? Do you suspect that it is happening in TV?

On TV, there are no rules! Forget Medianet; there are no rules at all (on TV). In fact, they are the worst offenders as far as this is concerned. There are so many TV channels who are selling ads virtually free! You see, at the end of the day nobody is saying that they are putting this much money in print and this much on TV. They are just looking at media options, and when agencies get such tempting options there, then it becomes very difficult. That’s why I tell my friends in the business that there should be a Lakshman rekha. We have to draw that Lakshman rekha ourselves in our self-interest or there will be complete anarchy.



Q. You just spoke about the time India Today was a fortnightly and that you saw no room for a fortnightly…

No…maybe I saw room for a fortnightly but purely as a strategy I said why do you want to compete with them on their terms. Set your terms. Let them compete with you.



Q. Do you ever see a situation where more and more newspapers will do what Medianet is doing for The Times of India?

I think that has created adverse and negative publicity for Medianet and I don’t think anybody else has yet followed suit.


Published On: Sep 30, 2005 12:00 AM 
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