Rahul Welde, GM, Media Services, Hindustan Lever

TV effectiveness is declining, but at the same time this whole debate on 30-second TVC dying is really exaggerated in the Indian context. TV is growing in India, but the reality is that the consumer is looking away from TV because of the options she has today. We haven't reached the levels of the UK and the US, where TV is innovating quickly because of growing technologies. Technology in India is growing, but it is still on a very small base.

Being one of the largest spenders in conventional and non-conventional media, Hindustan Lever Ltd has set quite a few trends as far as communication with all kinds of target audience goes. In addition to traditional media, the media major has been experimenting with new kinds of media like advertiser funded programmes (AFP), the Internet, digital and so on.

In conversation with exchange4media's Noor Fathima Warsia, Rahul Welde, GM Media Services, HLL, speaks at length about the guiding strategy behind HLL's media spends and the continuing experiments.

Q. Coming to your point on non TV spends, to what extent has there been a shift in the media-mix and which are the alternatives to TV that you prefer?

As I said earlier, we have been growing our non-TV spends very aggressively. Generally speaking, our non-TV spends are growing at least twice as fast as our TV spends. We are using more print, more outdoor, more radio, and more Internet across our campaigns. All media are exciting and relevant in their own way. We have a decent map of our preferences - across media and across our brands.

The total advertising pie is limited for any advertiser. So, if something has to grow very fast, something has to grow slowly. At present, growth of spends in new media is of course at the cost of conventional media. Nonetheless, we have grown our TV and print spends as well. Like I said, TV spends are growing, but a lot slower than they would without all these new options. This is driven by what the consumers are doing more than anything else.

Very excited. More geography coverage means more listeners and that means more opportunities for us to reach and engage our consumers. Look at what FM did to cities like Mumbai and Delhi when it came in. It will do the same to Jaipur, Lucknow, and wherever new stations come up. We are already the largest advertiser on radio and will continue to aggressively invest in this medium.

Yes, TV effectiveness is declining, but at the same time this whole debate on 30-second TVC dying is really exaggerated in the Indian context. TV is growing in India, but the reality is that the consumer is looking away from TV because of the options she has today and as long she is somewhere else, the advertiser will try and be there to get her. We haven't reached the levels of the UK and the US, where TV is innovating quickly because of growing technologies. Technology in India is growing, but it is still on a very small base.

Yes, we are using the Internet aggressively for select brands simply because it is more relevant for some brands than it is for other brands. For instance, it is very relevant for Axe, Sunsilk, Lux, Clinic All Clear - the high-end kinds. It really is dependant on the TG and what their engagement is going to be. We would definitely not use the Internet for Wheel today, but can we do it in the future? Maybe. That would depend on Internet penetration in rural India, but that is distant. For now, we will invest in the Internet to drive engagement within our urban audiences.

There are two central thrusts of our approach. The first is that we are driving 360-degree communication and integrated campaigns, which means a much larger presence across all non-TV media than we've ever had before. Secondly, we have significantly upped our ante in the areas of creativity and innovation in the media space. In many ways, all the Emvies that we won inspire us to do more in this area. Our agenda clearly is to keep break new ground and keep innovation a high priority.

Personally, I am chasing disruptive ideas all the time. This is a top priority for all our teams. And many of our new ideas have fired well for us. All this, of course, has to be done at sensible costs and our emphasis on costs is no lesser. We are getting a lot of support for these thrusts from several of our partners - in television, print as well as other media. So, in a way we are driving great collaborative efforts - new ideas, new execution, new ways of working, new rules of engagement.

The media industry will continue to grow at a decent pace of 14-15 per cent. It can't get any higher because there is only so much advertisers can afford in terms of their own P&L. And the focus on effectiveness will continue. I think television in general will see slower growth than the overall media industry. Firstly, because in some ways television has peaked in terms of the number of channels and/or the seconds or advertising per hour which are aired. Radio will attract revenue due its expansion and so will print, which is also expanding aggressively. Internet will explode. And remember that the total pie is almost finite, so if these forms of media grow very fast, someone else will grow slower. We will see a lot of churn. Every medium is witnessing growth and the overall outlook across is positive.

We are very excited with all these new modes of communication. Whether it is LCD screens or interactivity through DTH, or more radio stations - the growth and new avenues are all welcome. We will have to see how it pans out, but I do see us participating actively in all these new media.

Media inflation has two dimensions. One is the absolute increase in media rates. Inflation on account of rate increases is actually marginal. The second, which is the more important aspect of media inflation, is the declining effectiveness. Getting a bang for the buck is increasingly challenging given the increasing fragmentation and the clutter - both across mediums and within a medium.

I wouldn't call it a worry, but I think the biggest challenge for all advertisers is about communication effectiveness. This is more so because there is finite amount to be deployed. That brings to the fore the challenge of where to invest. So, in some ways it is like managing a portfolio - where should I put and how much, and what will it give back to me?

The multitude of media options is both a challenge and an opportunity. It gives us several more streams to connect with our consumers. That's the opportunity view. Given the choices that consumers make, it calls for greater creativity - in ideas as well as execution. So, the old approach is surely not enough anymore. And that is the primary reason behind our focus on 360-degree communication. It is certainly more engaging and effective.

Fragmentation and clutter are the obvious challenges. These are adversely impacting both reach and effectiveness. On TV, for example, if you look at the top 15 channels and look at the ratings of top, say 20 programmes, they are all delivering between 10 per cent and 15 per cent lower than the same time last year. And this holds true for every single month of the year. There are of course some odd months and some channels which are exceptions. Fragmentation of audiences makes the task that much more difficult. This also allows for sharper targeting, another opportunity is posed by the media proliferation.

We have been aggressive in our investments in all genres, but I don't think this is bad news for mass channels. Viewers are looking at newer genres but in smaller numbers, which brings us back to the fact that fragmentation has become rampant. But the belly of the market continues to be mass channels - whether it is Hindi, South or DD. Sports, news, music and all new genres have their own audiences and have affected mass channels. But soaps are still going to be very important. We are growing our investments across all genres on TV.

Integrating communication or brand messages into content is nothing new. Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC) would be the oldest successful example. This has, however, become the buzz more recently. I think it's getting over-hyped in some ways. Both advertisers and content owners need to get realistic in their expectations. Advertisers need to understand what this actually delivers to the brand and be realistic about how far the brand can intrude into the content. For content owners, there has to be a fine balance between intrusion and integration and realism in terms of the financials. Viewers don't want to watch advertising inside their shows. So, seamless integration and execution is the key in this area.

It's in multiples - it is not a percentage increase, it is like three times or four times, but of that order, in multiples. The Internet space is about two things really. One is this whole thing about site building and driving engagement there from, and then there is Internet advertising. Our investments are a combination of these two factors. If you take Clinicallclear.com, for example, it is a fun website, there are some 2,000 movies that people have uploaded on the site through the 'movie-maker'. There is a lot of stuff that people are doing over there. So, the Internet in that sense is very exciting albeit for a few brands, but this is set to grow further.

From an advertiser's perspective, TV's role in the entire communication exercise has diminished from what it was. At one time we were only developing television led communication and plans - almost nothing more. Now as I said, we are focusing on 360-degree multimedia communication and not just TV anymore. We haven't grown our spends in TV in the manner in which we have grown outside of TV. With more options, there are interesting ways to communicate and people keep exploring new ways. Take the example of radio, when stations are launched in places like Lucknow and Jaipur, people living there will listen to the medium. Now that is a new engagement point for me and I'll take it. And my Rs X spend is fixed, so if I have to spend some amount there, I have to take it from somewhere, and in our case it is TV. This is not to say that TV spends are declining - it is just that the growth in TV spends is not as fast as it would have been earlier.

We have done a number of projects in this area and started quite early. More recently we did 'Wheel Smart Shrimati' on DD and 'Rin Mera Star Superstar' on STAR Plus. Both have done very well. 'Wheel Smart Shrimati' has been excellent. It was the top rated show on DD for five consecutive weeks and was among the top 10 throughout. We believe the key for its success was the way we drove it as a true 360-integrated idea - on TV, on ground, on radio, in print. While ratings are important from a scale point of view, more critical is building engagement, and I am pleased that these shows have built great affinity with the audiences.

AFPs have high levels of engagement with consumers and they pick up key messages well. I think that art lies with the show and the format, and this is really an entertaining way of speaking to the audience. In addition to that, there is a lot you can do with the interactivity that a digital medium like the Internet allows. An example here is Sunsilk Gang of Girls - here again, awareness levels are very high and so is the engagement. People participate, give their views and are really bonding with the brand. And the numbers are just awesome - over 280,000 registered members, over 25,000 gangs, and growing everyday. There isn't a community as large that we know of. So, there are a multitude of options to drive engagement.

I think the decline in effectiveness of TV has been more than anticipated. The other big thing has been the higher level of interest in sports - more so from the advertisers than from the audiences. And the big money is now going behind sports in general and cricket in particular. I think that has surprised many.