Sonal Dabral Regional Creative Director - South Asia & Chairman India, Bates 141, Sandeep Pathak CEO India, Bates 141

As one of Asia’s most illustrious talents, Sonal Dabral needs little introduction to the industry. In his 20-year career, Dabral has won awards from the most prolific international and regional shows, including Cannes, Clio, D&AD, One Show, AdFest and Spikes.

In 1979, Dabral took his first leap of faith when he followed his heart to join the National Institute of Design to study a completely unheard of subject – Visual Communication. In 1985, after graduating in Visual Communication, film and photography, he spent his early years in advertising at Lintas, Delhi.

After five years in Delhi, he moved to Mumbai to join Ogilvy and Mather. With the help of some breakthrough work on brands like Cadbury’s and Fevicol, he helped drive O&M India from the creative wilderness to become the No. 1 creative agency in the country. The next step was Malaysia, where Dabral was offered the post of ECD at O&M, Kuala Lumpur in 1999. In May 2004, Dabral took over as Chairman and ECD of O&M, Singapore, the top creative agency in the Asia-Pacific region. At Cannes 2007, as Chairman and Executive Creative Director, he led Ogilvy Singapore to be the third highest awarded agency in the world, competing against a record 25,700 entries from more than 80 countries. Ogilvy Singapore emerged second runner up as global ‘Agency of the Year’, a first for an Asian agency.

These days, Dabral is busy writing his first feature film, which he plans to direct in the next few years.

Sandeep Pathak has 18 years’ experience in advertising and two years in marketing. A PG Diploma holder in Advertising and Marketing from Xaviers Institute of Communications, Mumbai, Pathak is also a qualified systems analyst, tech evangelist, and amateur tabla player.

He began his career with Nestle India, selling baby food for two years. He joined Clarion (later christened as Bates Clarion) in May 1991 in Mumbai as Senior Account Executive. He was sent to head the agency’s Chennai office in five years.

Pathak joined Leo Burnett Mumbai in May 1999 as Head of one of the three mini-agencies. Here, he was member of the team that won numerous local and international awards at Cannes, One-Show, New York Fest, etc.

In conversation with exchange4media’s Tasneem Limbdiwala, both Dabral and Pathak talk in detail about new recruitments at Bates 141, creativity, tackling recessionary times and more.



Q. Bates 141 has witnessed several developments within a year. Recently, Rajeev Raja, who had been an old hand for the agency, moved on. Has his replacement been identified? Till a replacement has been found, who is in charge of his role? Are you considering someone like Sanjay Sipahimalani for the role?

Dabral: We are definitely looking to have a replacement for Rajeev Raja. As of now there are no plans to have Sippy (Sanjay Sipahimalani) take over his role. We are definitely going to fill in Raja’s shoes. Till then, we have some senior CDs who are looking at the work. Currently, there is a very good atmosphere within the agency in terms of sharing, ideating and bouncing new ideas. So, as far the direction is concerned, I am at the moment handling it. We are also planning for a creative partner in the form of a National Creative Director (NCD) and also hunting for a Mumbai Branch Head. Till then, Pathak and I will direct our concerned respective roles. However, we have still not identified anybody as we are very stringent and careful in our appointments.

Pathak: We are looking at the right person for the roles. Though there is an urgency in filling up these posts, at the same time we are also very cautious because if the shoe gets the wrong feet, one might get a corn!

Pathak: There was no specific reason as such. We operate actually in three different disciplines – there is advertising, OOH services, and 141 Sercon. So, each one now needs to be driven with its own agenda and five-year plans. I have taken charge of the advertising side of the agency, which includes Bates 141 and Wall Street. There is Vijay Singh, who is MD of 141 Sercon and is part of the Committee. Manosh Mukherjee takes on the role of COO and will be responsible for the operational issues. He has taken some wonderful initiatives in the past that have benefited the company. Dheeraj Sinha has been a thought leader for the last four years and has been given the responsibility for the overall strategy.

Dabral: My overseas experience has given me perspectives that would not have happened had I stayed at one place. Thus, some of the perspectives and learnings I have started to apply here as well. We have great creativity in India and people are full of ideas, however, I would come back to the same issue that we are still not up there in terms of crafting our work. As Regional Executive Creative Director, I am doing cross-pollinating, as in mixing talent. For instance, there was a team from here that flew to Vietnam to work there for one and a half months. Sometimes we also work on different region pitches. As Regional Executive Creative Director, I am able to facilitate that very easily and I wish to do more such initiatives giving all a learning experience of different markets and regions. You may call it a challenge, but for me, it’s a great opportunity.

Pathak: We have to realise that we need to fill in the replacements for certain post. So, even if there is a recruitment freeze, it does not mean I stop the search for the right people for a post. We are leading the search mode for the right person for the above-mentioned three posts. However, the slowdown has affected the finance sector. One will see a bigger fragmentation coming in.

Dabral: Whenever there is a gap, it needs to be filled. However, this diktat has not affected India on a whole comparatively, but some repercussions will be felt.

Pathak: A year from now, I see myself taking a holiday. I don’t think I have taken one in the last eight months. And maybe invite Sonal to accompany me for the same, where we will reminisce over the year gone by. As for 2008, we are well on track and will deliver on the promises that we had set out with.

Dabral: Pretty exciting! I came on board in January 2008. From July 2007, it was my transition period where I had been handling a lot of Ogilvy work from Singapore as well. So in a real sense, it was from January that I have been with Bates. The experience has been quiet exciting doing some good work as there have been new people coming in. There are some exciting changes happening with a desire to do great creative work and now with (Sandeep) Pathak as CEO of the new executive committee. I am even more excited. He is a great champ in creative work, being extremely passionate about it. So, good things are happening. Of late, I have been shooting for Sony Bravia for the Singapore region. Hence, I have been spending a lot of time in Singapore and India as there has been a lot of work happening in both the markets. We have visited all our offices across India. There is a new charge that’s there everywhere. There is a new creative team that has come to head New Delhi. Now, we are on the lookout for a Mumbai Branch Head as well.

Pathak: For me, I’m still doing my earlier job and the game plan is pretty simple – what has happened in Mumbai office now needs to happen across five offices. Right now, I’m in the process of sourcing out each of the markets and soon will put a plan in place, which will take us in some of the important advertising markets. For us going forward, Kolkata and Chennai are of descent size. It is all about re-building Delhi and consolidating Mumbai. So, that’s the challenge going forward.

Dabral: Yes, I can definitely see a new energy flowing at Bates. My focus has been to work extremely hard in getting to good ideas. Good ideas don’t happen just like that, but once you get it, one needs to work really hard to get it extremely well crafted. These are the two areas that are highly important to us. We can’t escape the fact, as for any advertising agency, our product is our work that gets out. Whether it is a print, film or web solution, it is the good work ideally that is observed. So, you can’t hide behind a great presentation or a brief if your work is bad. The work needs to be absolutely in focus and become one’s centrestage. That is something that we are constantly reminding our team and hence, the vision is to improve our work to the level where it is considered to be the best in India or the world, hopefully. If we call ourselves a changed agency, then that change needs to be observed in good ideas.

Pathak: Since I have joined advertising, the only aspect that I prioritise about is what I have been working towards and the fruit of that is visible the next day on television or newspaper. Just as a farmer is happy with a better crop every year, I, too, am happy when I get to operate in a great environment with good work.

When we talk about partnerships, it should be between two people who share a similar vision for the agency and the creative leadership. If there is an ideological mismatch, that mismatch will be seen in the work too. For instance, it doesn’t make sense for me to speak to Sonal only about business, hence one needs to understand the prioritisation of both creativity and business together. Take the case of Ogilvy & Mather – it was the partnership between Ranjan Kapur and Piyush Pandey, who shared the same vision together of making Ogilvy India what it is known as today – a creative hotshot.

As for Bates, the win ratio has been good. We have picked up some real good businesses in some of the coveted pitches that had taken place. So, whether it is Virgin Mobile or Fiat, those are big pitches that we have won. Over and above that, work on Virgin, Fiat, Tata AIG, or Radico from Delhi and some work out of Kolkata have been well spoken about. In fact, our Kolkata office has been the agency of the year for five years in a row now and has been competing with none other than O&M. That is something that we need to do across India. So yes, it has led to many saying ‘Watch out for Bates’, and I guess that’s the mantra.

Dabral: I don’t believe in the balance between creative and business because it is not the right way of looking at it. Pathak’s job is to take care of the health of the business. That’s his job, but that is not where his existence (as for anybody in advertising) ends. It is his passion to do great creative work.

Dabral: Pathak has been very ably handling the Mumbai operations for the last 18 months. So, there is not much brief that I need to give him. I also have the firm belief that troubled times or good times, as long as our product is good, we should be safe. It is the product that will get us new business wins and more new businesses from our existing businesses. It is the product that will get the glory, fame and fortune. However, we are obviously being careful like any other business would be in these troubled times. We are planning more tactfully for the future. Besides that, we are of the view that we have to constantly make our product better and better. So, if we need to invest in people, we will not clench our fists. As I had said earlier, it is the good people who will create good work and make that atmosphere much better.

Dabral: As I had mentioned earlier, we in India are full of ideas, but in terms of our craft and execution, we have still not reached that stage. So yes, this is a problem. However, of late, we have been seeing good work, for instance, the work done by Ram Madhvani, Prakash Verma or Prasoon Pandey. But these are few and get copied often. For instance, if one joke does well in a film, that same joke gets repeated by 15 other brands and agencies. There is not much differentiation. I am sure other countries also suffer from this, but we need to avoid that.

Pathak: The recent development that was much needed was the change in leadership in Delhi. So, this was one of the biggest developments from our side as it is the market that we have invested in the most. As for new wins, there is nothing much that has happened that I can talk about right now.

Pathak: For an organisation our size, we need to find leadership from within. There was also the need for some kind of a formal stamp on the roles that people have been playing. Over and above all, it is just setting up a discipline that this Committee meets on a regular basis to see the progress on the agenda set forward. As for Vijay and I, we both have separate agendas and we are responsible for that. With Sonal heading it, it is the Executive Committee that monitors the progress of each organisation in the whole system. The Committee will meet every quarter to take stock of the progress made.

Pathak: We have something that is called the ‘must-keeps’. Those are the guys who have really made a difference to the roles they are handling. So, we are doing all that we can in terms of showing them the career path and going forward in training them.